子居 发表于 2008-11-27 19:57

关于“上爱其政”向陈剑先生请教一下

先生在“《容成氏》第2、3兩簡改接於第37簡之後的問題”的帖子中曾说“他將簡1改跟簡43連讀,相連處的文句爲“而上愛||【01-43】||其政,治而不賞……”,此恐頗難取信於人。”
<br>
<br>俺想了一下,可不可能断为这样
<br>
<br>皆不授其子而授賢。其德酋清而上(尚)愛,||②【01-43】||其政治而不賞,官而不爵③,無厲於民而治亂不共,故曰賢。
<br>
<br>另外先生也没有提及颇难取信于人的缘故,希望先生可以详细说说。
<br>还有这个“爱”字,是否可能是其它字呢?
<br>苏建洲先生《上博二校释》说
<br><img border=0 onload=javascript:DrawImage(this); src=UpFile/UpAttachment/2008-11/20081127115558.gif>
<br>用武大[簡帛字形辭例檢索]得
<br><img border=0 onload=javascript:DrawImage(this); src=UpFile/UpAttachment/2008-11/20081127115651.gif>
<br>

陳劍 发表于 2008-11-28 08:00

<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=Calibri></FONT></o:p></SPAN></P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri"></SPAN>&nbsp;</P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">“請教”不敢當,既是網絡論壇發言,大家各自直抒己見隨意討論唄。</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face=Calibri>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>1</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">、“愛”字恐難改釋。</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 12pt; TEXT-INDENT: -12pt; mso-char-indent-count: -1.0"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>2</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">、“上愛其政”什麽意思呢?顯然讀不通啊。而且“其政治而不賞”應連讀,不能拆開啊。所以我說“相連處的文句爲‘而上愛</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>||</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">【</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>01-43</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">】</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>||</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">其政,治而不賞</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>……</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">’,此恐頗難取信於人”。子居先生現另提出“其德酋清而上(尚)愛,</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>||</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">【</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>01-43</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">】</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>||</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">其政治而不賞”的斷讀法,是已經意識到了原讀法的問題罷?但“其德酋清而上(尚)愛”仍感有問題。說那些古帝王“尚愛”是可通的,但要說他們的“德”本身“尚愛”,恐怕就不行了吧?</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt 12pt; TEXT-INDENT: -12pt; mso-char-indent-count: -1.0"><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>3</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">、竹簡編聯往往牽一髮而動全身,我前帖衹補充肯定了<SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">第</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><FONT face=Calibri>2</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">、</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><FONT face=Calibri>3</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR

海天 发表于 2008-11-28 19:07

請問陳劍兄“《容成氏》第2、3兩簡改接於第37簡之後的問題”的帖子發表在何處啊<IMG src="Editor/Emotion/18.gif">

郭永秉 发表于 2008-11-28 19:36

<P><FONT size=3><FONT face=宋体>簡</FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>31</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">的所謂“辰”或“唇”字,對比本篇簡</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>8</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">、簡</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>32</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">的“</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”字,恐更可能當釋讀爲“</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”,連下讀爲“</SPAN><SPAN lang=ZH-TW style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW">孝</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">。</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN lang=ZH-TW style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW">方爲三俈</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”。這樣一來,其前在現有竹簡中就更找不到能跟它連讀的了。</SPAN></FONT></P><P><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">——————————————————————————————————</SPAN></FONT></P><P><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">此字当释“<SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[<

陳劍 发表于 2008-11-28 20:15

“《容成氏》第2、3兩簡改接於第37簡之後的問題”一帖見http://www.gwz.fudan.edu.cn/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=675。<br><br><br>    “[厶/司](始)方爲三俈”的釋讀情況確如郭永秉兄所說。我前回帖所說這部分的内容,寫時似乎覺得是自己的認識,現回過頭去重讀郭永秉兄《帝系新研》有關部分,發現其實恐怕也應該是因以前讀過故早有此印象,衹是後來淡忘了而已。所以郭永秉兄說“拙文曾作讨论,意思与陈老师高见基本一样”云云應該倒過來說,我很贊同晏昌貴先生的釋字和郭永秉兄的讀法。<br>    <br>

子居 发表于 2008-11-28 21:26

<P>陈剑先生就是厉害,俺没说出来的,先生都知道了啊。<BR>俺的感觉“酋清而上愛”与下面的“厚愛而薄斂”是对应的,“其政治而不賞,官而不爵”与“高山陞,蓁林||【31-44】||入焉以行政。於是乎治爵而行祿”是对应的。<BR>确实如先生所说,“酋清而上愛”虽然勉强讲得通,但确实牵强些,俺不喜欢牵强,所以才问这个“爱”字的,或许可以参照“厚愛而薄斂”重新理解一下“酋清而上愛”?<BR>呵,也许俺啥时再灵机一动一次,就知道正确答案了。</P><P>至于<BR>“[厶/司](始)方爲三俈”<BR>看着很别扭哦,先秦时有“始方某某”这样的说法么,好象要么会写作“始爲三俈”要么会写作“方爲三俈”吧?<BR>或者是另行理解?</P><P>另外<BR>哪位会员给的负分啊,什么理由给的负分呢,既然想埋掉这帖子,烦请把大名留一下可好?</P><P><img border=0 onload=javascript:DrawImage(this); src=UpFile/UpAttachment/2008-11/20081128132612.gif></P>

陳劍 发表于 2008-11-28 22:24

至于<br>“[厶/司](始)方爲三俈”<br>看着很别扭哦,先秦时有“始方某某”这样的说法么,好象要么会写作“始爲三俈”要么会写作“方爲三俈”吧?<br>或者是另行理解?<br><br><br>老大,這個“[厶/司](始)方爲三俈”的“方”,下頭還有東西南北四個一模一樣的“方”等著呢……<br>

战国时代 发表于 2008-11-28 22:55

<P><FONT size=3><FONT face=宋体>簡</FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>31</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">的所謂“辰”或“唇”字,對比本篇簡</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>8</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">、簡</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=Calibri>32</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">的“</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”字,恐更可能當釋讀爲“</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”,連下讀爲“</SPAN><SPAN lang=ZH-TW style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW">孝</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">。</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">厶</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>/</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">司</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face=Calibri>]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">(始)</SPAN><SPAN lang=ZH-TW style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW">方爲三俈</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">”。這樣一來,其前在現有竹簡中就更找不到能跟它連讀的了。</SPAN></FONT></P><P><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">_________________________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></P><P><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri">或可断读为:</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii

子居 发表于 2008-11-28 22:56

<P>汗,被陈剑先生抓到了。</P><P>但是,俺还是觉得别扭(好象俺就挺别扭的,哈哈)</P><P>这里说“始”,可后面就没再提啥“俈”的了呀?</P><P>难不成这四方各三俈,并非如战国先生所讲是十二州牧,而就是指十二州?</P>

子居 发表于 2008-11-28 23:05

啊,回完帖看见战国先生的帖子了
<br>读为“孝治”也是挺好哦
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